Curse

tmr819 · Dec 30, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

An interesting (though a bit old) read by the way (that made me understand and agree on some of the points mentioned in this thread:
http://gwvault.ign.com/View.php?view...s.Detail&id=20

Thanks for the link, Fril. It's a very funny essay.

I liked the opening...

Quote:

Ok, it's been discussed. It's been fought about. It's been beaten until the dead horse got up and politely asked us to kindly withdraw the foot from its derriere. So what have we all learned from this hideously over-analyzed subject? Well, in my opinion, we have learned that the only reason people have continued to compare the two is for arguments sake, and the knowledge that they are bound to get a response. HELLO?? ATTENTION!! That's right. There is no point to any of it. Comparing the two is not going to change anything. It's not going to convert all WoW players over to GW and vice versa.

There may be "no point to any of it", but it still is an interesting topic, especially in light of ArenaNet's intention to take GW in new directions with GW2. I particularly enjoy reading comments from people who have played both games and can compare and contrast the two of them.

Darkobra · Dec 30, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Denravi Drunk

Ok, since that's done, let's move on shall we? No. Too bad. It's my party and all the girls have to pillow fight in their pajamas if I say so.

From now on, I will believe anything this guy says.

Fril Estelin · Dec 30, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmr819

Thanks for the link, Fril. It's a very funny essay.

I liked the opening...

It is, indeed

. And the fact that it was written 2 years ago should teach us a good lesson: the guy is right, the issue has been ongoing, since with every new update of both games the comparison may seem to change. But now, I understand those that said in this thread that the 2 games are not "even", in the sense that they sort-of aim at different experiences, though via similar and sometimes identical means.

On the other hand, I think that WoW has a higher level of addiction (yes, it doesn't mean that it's an excuse for players to loose their life on virtual worlds, but it does have a huge influence, chocolate is also addictive, but much less than cigarette and alcohol). So it seems to me that you pay a bit more than the monthly fee in WoW, you pay with "a bit of your soul" (if I may say so), but on the other hand you get a reward through the "persistent adventures" of your virtual character. Though I'm sure that GW PvPers also get this, but not through PvE experience.

And honestly, I'm more worried about the merge between Blizzard and Activision than these arguments we're having here; at the end of the day, alas, money determines the force of an argument and I really hope that Anet will be able to survive in a REAL world where WoW has adds on tv and Blizzard-Activision becomes the biggest gaming company in the biggest industry of computing, possibly even bigger than EA, a very similar situation to what happened to Microsoft years ago. Read this:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=16458

And there's a reason why Blizzard have been and are left well alone - the clout that comes with this mindblowing statistic: "Blizzard Entertainment [which has "over 9.3 million subscribers" to World Of Warcraft] has projected calendar 2007 revenues of $1.1 billion, operating margins of over 40% and approximately $520 million of operating profit."

Bryant Again · Dec 30, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

WoW isn't the only game with these features, the difference is the reward system--the gerbil-wheel endorphin-drip that keeps you a feedin on the teet.

WoW isn't the only, you're right. But it does it the best. The large amount of content, the number of baddies, the huge boss battles, tactics, etc. are more polished than any other MMO out there on the market.

Not to mention, it's Warcraft. Going places I've been to since WC1 makes me pretty stoked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Yes Quick test: Vendor all your items and delete your characters. Proven to yourself that WoW and all the "needy" tricks and pixs mean nothing but, it's just havin fun. You can do it, just walk away . . . Can't do it can you. Of course you'll say you don't want to, you've invested too much time, it's too much fun yada, yada, yada. Excuses of an addiction are what you don't want to find you're giving yourself. That's the easy way to avoid the truth. Do it. Prove it. If not to us, to yourself. Especially if it means nothing but a bit of Fun. Cut the cord. Take the leap. Repent and amend your ways.

I'd rather not delete any of my characters for the same reason I won't delete my Oblivion characters: I don't want to play up to that point again. This isn't a sign of addiction, it's just not wanting to do the same thing over again. It applies to any game: It applies to Zelda, to Super Mario (I was so pissed when I was at star 119 and my cartridge eff'd up), *any* game with a save slot. "Hey, it's just a game!" It sure is, but I'd rather go to the next and last level than start all over again, thank you very much.

If my stuff gets deleted, I won't be terribly pissed. Hell, I've been banned four times on Guild Wars and I could give less of a shit. I just won't be playing again.

And I am in no way a casual player, but you do not see me advocating for them in any sense.

You can't see me · Dec 31, 2007, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Lol, I can't wait until WoW2 comes out.... if ever. Then someone will write a GW2 Vs. WoW2 comparison and we'll be in the same boat.

Killed u man · Dec 31, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Meh, I think we can ALL agree on one thing, Blizzard DIDN'T abbandon their game...

GW, both PvE and PvP has declined since day1.

Why? Because Anet doesn't give the community a chance to speak out, even worse, they didn't even have a forum? What they said was: Just go to one of our fan-based-sites, and we MIGHT take it into concideration. Whereas in WoW, Blizzard is more directly involved in "What people want"

Why did GW decline so much in PvE, it's a boring game, once you completed it once. I'm really sorry guys, but that's the way it is. Sure, you could go Vanquish this area, or complete this mission, with only using 1 skill on your bar, but that DOESN'T add to a game. You're finding ways to amuse yourself. It takes a braindead to keep playing PvE, once you finished it.

PvP-side, well let's stick with this: Anet never gave a f.... about PvP-community, untill about 3-4 months ago, when it was too late.

WoW on the other hand, well, it only increased over the past years. I only know this from my sister, since I never played WoW. But I remember my sister sending a mail to Blizzard help service, and gues what.... She actually got a mail back, WITH relevant information!!!
I remember having a question about stacking (SoC and PD) and some other stuff. I HAD 2 WAIT 2 DAYS TO GET A AUTOGENERATED-MAIL BACK, saying they would send me another email in a few days. A few days letter, I got a message from, don't recall name, saying: Interesting question, but I have no clue.

Ok... That... Hmmm... Did, or did these guys NOT kinda... make... the... game?
Ok, sure, mayby he's just hired, and had nothing to do with the actually Anet- coders, but couldn't he just ask? I waited a week for: I don't know, from a official help-desk... Sigh...

Also reporting someone, something VERY simple, seems to be a one-days-job. Take screens, edit them to blanc out certain stuff/make them smaller in size, finding the correct email on PlayNC.com, making acc, etc...

Now with the /report it's SOMEWHAT better, but still shucks.

Anyways, I don't think anyone will really disagree on this one: Blizzard cared, they actually did "good" updates, that's why WoW is now a better game...
(AoE nerf? Ether Renewal? 8v8 -> 6v6, Old school -> 3-Way? ,...(endless list, pretty much 95% updates)) => None of these were ever asked for, Anet, should have atleast checked for a response on your so-called fansites. (Remember the spam after 8v8 -> 6v6, everyone wanted it reversed, Anet's reply: we see you guys are enjoying this, so we'll keep it)

Turtle222 · Dec 31, 2007, 02:43 PM // 14:43

WoW is better because of its sheer size and character's mobility. you cannot swim in GW nor jump. I don't like the whole instance thing. but...i do love GW's combat system to bits and it is far superior to WoW

Balan Makki · Dec 31, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle222

WoW is better because of its sheer size and character's mobility. you cannot swim in GW nor jump. I don't like the whole instance thing.

Yeah, it's all about jumping, you should be able to Rocket-Jump from one outpost to the other. I can't believe GW omitted that feature - OMFG.

And the sheer size, it's all about size. Regardless that most of it's obsolete to your main character. You still get a few Leet dungeons to grind your life away. Three dozen tries and you'll eventually get that Helmet of Brilliance, so you can then move on to grinding for the Helmet of Uber Brilliance, then The Helmet of Superior Uber Brilliance, then Helmet of Ultimate Uber "I Win you Lose" so just /kill Yourself. Everything about WoW is so Cool Man, nothing else really matters, once I've max'd my stats, I can show everyone I've really done something Great, I da Man.

Bryant Again · Dec 31, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

It's hard to deny that the massive openness that WoW provides has been one of its coolest points. Looking at the map and saying "wow, I can explore any part of that" (save for the mountain blocks, but those are moot now thanks to flying mounts) is pretty cool.

And a Z-axis always helps. It's pretty annoying that a guy is able to hit me while I'm under a bridge.

Darkobra · Dec 31, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Yeah, it's all about jumping, you should be able to Rocket-Jump from one outpost to the other. I can't believe GW omitted that feature - OMFG.

And the sheer size, it's all about size. Regardless that most of it's obsolete to your main character. You still get a few Leet dungeons to grind your life away. Three dozen tries and you'll eventually get that Helmet of Brilliance, so you can then move on to grinding for the Helmet of Uber Brilliance, then The Helmet of Superior Uber Brilliance, then Helmet of Ultimate Uber "I Win you Lose" so just /kill Yourself. Everything about WoW is so Cool Man, nothing else really matters, once I've max'd my stats, I can show everyone I've really done something Great, I the Man.

You're either really tired or really, really bad at sarcasm. Which would you say you can get more gameplay out of? The Burning Crusade or Eye of the North?

Balan Makki · Dec 31, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's pretty annoying that a guy is able to hit me while I'm under a bridge.

You're supposed to hit back.

Balan Makki · Dec 31, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

You're either really tired or really, really bad at sarcasm. Which would you say you can get more gameplay out of? The Burning Crusade or Eye of the North?

That wasn't sarcasm, It's how I feel as a WoW player. The only thing bad about WoW is that I have to get up to pee once in a while.

BC has way more grind. Hands down. As for optional content, stuff not required to advance your character or game. EoTN.

(mostly I just wanted to get this thread rolling again. The same thread over at other forums is beating this one)

tmr819 · Dec 31, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Which would you say you can get more gameplay out of? The Burning Crusade or Eye of the North?

I'd say The Burning Crusade, most definitely. Only ... it isn't as fun.

Bryant Again · Dec 31, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

You're supposed to hit back.

The fact that it happens in the first place is what's lame. I'm not upset I'm being attacked, I'm just upset that it's stupid.

I know WoW has some annoying bits, but being able to hit or cast spells on a guy three stories above you?

Taurucis · Dec 31, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

I have played both WoW and GW so here is my comparison.

Graphics: Guild Wars is the unchallenged winner here, hands down. WoW graphics work like this: They have a mesh and texture for your character. If you remove your character's armor and shirt, you will see his/her chest texture, "painted" onto the chest mesh. But if you equip armor, the armor texture will be painted over the mesh. Guild Wars, however, stacks the armor mesh over the body mesh. Also, Guild Wars has a more "mature" art style, so to speak. WoW graphics are a lot like Morrowind, in the sense that you can actually make out each body part. (This is in the technical sense, pervs.)

Also, if you guys think EotN was a lot of reskins, almost all WoW armor is reskinned. There's about 15-25 basic meshes, and other random things just tacked on over it, or recolored.

SFX: I'd say it's a tie. I greatly prefer WoW music, but it's more obtrusive. I find Guild Wars music to blend into the game better. WoW sound effects are much better, however I think WoW is voice-acted a bit too much. Guild Wars, however, could use some better voice actors... Danika anyone?

Story/Lore: Pretty much a tie, though I'm a bit partial to Guild Wars. Although WoW lore is well-based (WoW has 3 games worth of lore, GW doesn't) there is no real storyline to WoW, you're just basically listening to the individual short stories of several NPCs. Guild Wars is more story driven, less "run around and kill things for fun."

Community: Can't be judged. I have found WoW community to be more like Runescape - they're all pretty immature, but you can't exactly find jerks that really stick out that much. Guild Wars is more polarized - you'll usually find a foulmouthed idiot, or a guy who just might end up on your friends list.

Note - I only played the server Malfurion, so that's the only judgement I can give.

Balancing: Guild Wars wins here. Yes there is class discrimination (Retribution paladins get laughed out of groups just like Mesmers, sins, dervs, getting kicked from groups) but overall, Guild Wars is more forgiving. If your'e a sin, and you want to get FoW armor, no problem... grab a friend, load up the heroes, and in you go. With WoW, you have to completely respec and turn into a tanking/healing gimp for your group until you've gotten what you need. Also, the WoW forums have a lot of QQing about "This class is too overpowered NERF!" or "This class is weak, buff it!"

I speculate that it's possible to pass every mission in Guild Wars with every single class, but with WoW, not so.

PvE: WoW wins here. There have been many times in Guild Wars where I've been getting pounded by the mobs (accidents happen...) and wish that some altruistic person would run by and give me a hand. Also, I'm a little disappointed that all GW has are missions and quests that have little or no replay value.

PvP: It's a tie. I've only played Battlegrounds and Dueling for WoW. I mostly AB in Guild Wars, though I have dabbled in HA and done some casual GvG. With GvG and HA, it's the flavor of the month build that wins... there's not much variety, and it boils down to whichever team slips up first. Battlegrounds and ABs are both incredibly chaotic. There's people running around like maniacs, ignoring the mission objectives, trash talking (infighting for WoW), leeches, and newbies who have no clue what's going on. Both, however, are really fun. While I prefer that WoW has larger amounts of players in the match, I also think that GW's short AB matches are a benefit.

Endgame Content: I never got past level 27, so I don't know about WoW. But the endgame stuff in Guild Wars (Deep, DoA, FoW, etc) is pretty good. I hear that raids/dungeons in the endgame take weeks to organize and six hours or more to carry out, but a good FoW group can clear in about 2 hours, and I had a Deep group that downed Kanaxai in 40 minutes. There is no verdict here.

Role-playing value: WoW wins hands down. Guild Wars does not have any non-combat things to do (except for those festivals which don't happen every day) while WoW has crafting, cooking, etc... I found it easier to create a WoW character with a little bit of history and play him according to what he'd like or not. With Guild Wars, there's less RPing involved. You pretty much need non-combat stuff to be able to RP.

Server quality: A tie, with WoW coming out more on top. Both games have their lag spikes, but I found that WoW servers are overall more stable. Whenever I DCed on WoW, it was usually because my internet went out.

Value: I'd have to say Guild Wars. With WoW, you might be paying for time that you don't spend online. With Guild Wars, you can just take a break any time you want and come back whenever you want.

(Though I think it would be a good idea if WoW went from a monthly fee, to a system where you paid for time you spent online.)

My end verdict: Neither games are "better" than each other. They have their good points and bad points. There are some people who will prefer WoW, and some who will prefer GW. It's a matter of personal decision.

Bryant Again · Dec 31, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Endgame Content: I never got past level 27, so I don't know about WoW. But the endgame stuff in Guild Wars (Deep, DoA, FoW, etc) is pretty good. I hear that raids/dungeons in the endgame take weeks to organize and six hours or more to carry out, but a good FoW group can clear in about 2 hours, and I had a Deep group that downed Kanaxai in 40 minutes. There is no verdict here.

Fully completeing a raid could take a while, yes. But most guilds don't do it as such. They will spend a few hours killing the first few bosses or so and come back later in the week (most raids reset within a week.)

Plus, you and the group would have to really know the raid in order to complete it in one night.

Balan Makki · Dec 31, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The fact that it happens in the first place is what's lame. I'm not upset I'm being attacked, I'm just upset that it's stupid.

Yeah, Kinda strange that Z axis exist for archery, best bow physics I've ever played in an MMO, but there's still that bug you speak of. I guess that's where we get off of GW1 at the next stop and wait for GW2.

Taurucis · Dec 31, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

I heard that in WoW, an arrow can outrun you, and then it will reverse directions to hit you in the face. Is that correct?

Bryant Again · Dec 31, 2007, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

Yeah, Kinda strange that Z axis exist for archery, best bow physics I've ever played in an MMO, but there's still that bug you speak of. I guess that's where we get off of GW1 at the next stop and wait for GW2.

Ah and that sucks, too. Ele's and Warriors/melee can attack through bridges but rangers can't do shit due to "line of sight".

If you want a good example of seeing this, the "Isle of Flame" I think it's called has a bridge to test that out. And I think it's in the explorable area North of Thannakki temple that has the three flights of stairs I'm talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

I heard that in WoW, an arrow can outrun you, and then it will reverse directions to hit you in the face. Is that correct?

Yeah, pretty much like homing missiles.

netniwk · Dec 31, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Server quality: A tie, with WoW coming out more on top. Both games have their lag spikes, but I found that WoW servers are overall more stable. Whenever I DCed on WoW, it was usually because my internet went out.

I have to disagree,The server maintenance in Wow are anoying,and I got more lag and random D/c's in one month of Wow then my whole playtime of Gw.